In unusual hearing, Rudy Giuliani asks Michigan lawmakers to ‘take back your power’

It was a legislative hearing unlike any other.

Over the course of roughly five hours Wednesday, Rudy Giuliani, personal attorney for President Donald Trump, and other people he brought forward asserted oft-repeated, oft-debunked claims of voter fraud and election misconduct to the House Oversight Committee.

He urged lawmakers to “take back your power” and disregard certified election results that show President-elect Joe Biden winning the state’s popular vote, calling those results a “complete falsehood.”

“Look, the people who certified your election... what are they worth?” he asked lawmakers, referring to the 83 bipartisan county boards of canvassers and the Board of State Canvassers that reviewed and certified the results.

Giuliani’s visit comes as the Trump campaign and Republican supporters continue to allege election fraud in Michigan and other battleground states and are pressuring state legislatures to intervene. A day earlier, members of the Senate Oversight Committee spent seven hours hearing similar claims from Michigan Republicans. In Michigan, certified election results show Trump losing by more than 154,000 votes to President-elect Joe Biden.

Related: Republicans repeat election fraud claims in 7-hour hearing, but ‘we are learning nothing new,’ Dems say

At times, it felt more like a court proceeding than a legislative committee hearing, as Giuliani was given unusual leeway to call up witnesses and ask them questions while lawmakers looked on.

Unlike a courtroom, however, no one who testified was required to swear an oath. While the practice is uncommon during Michigan legislative committee hearings, lawmakers are allowed to swear in witnesses - although an attempt by Rep. Darrin Camilleri, D-Brownstown, to swear Giuliani in at the beginning of the hearing was ruled out of order by Committee Chair Matt Hall, R-Marshall.

And lawmakers, especially the committee’s three Democrats, were strictly limited in how they could address Giuliani and others who testified Wednesday evening.

Onlookers attending the hearing in person were largely supporters of the Trump campaign and were vocal throughout the proceedings. Capacity in the room was limited due to the COVID-19 pandemic, but many attendees — including Giuliani — were not wearing masks.

Giuliani and Trump senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis spent the bulk of their time before Michigan lawmakers calling up a handful of Michigan Republicans dissatisfied by the election process in Wayne County, home to the heavily Democratic, majority-Black city of Detroit.

Their testimony rehashed claims made at a Senate Oversight Committee hearing Tuesday and in affidavits included in various legal challenges to the election results that alleged voter fraud and misconduct at Detroit’s TCF Center. So far, none of those challenges have been successful in court - one of the witnesses who testified Wednesday, Jessy Jacob, was an affiant in a suit deemed “incorrect and not credible” by Wayne County Circuit Court Judge Timothy Kenny.

Another person who testified, Melissa Carone, claimed election workers ran ballots through tabulators multiple times and were counted more than once, a claim that’s been refuted by election officials who say such an action would have resulted in large imbalances that didn’t exist.

Questioned on that point by Rep. Steven Johnson, R-Wayland, Carone became combative: “I know what I saw, and I signed something saying that if I’m wrong, I can go to prison. Did you?” she told him.

Several prominent Michigan officials roundly denounced the proceedings. Chris Thomas, who served as Michigan’s elections director for decades and was a senior advisor for elections in Detroit this year, live-tweeted fact checks of claims made by witnesses. Attorney General Dana Nessel, whose office fields and investigates fraud complaints, called it a “state sponsored disinformation campaign geared toward undermining our electoral system.”

Rep. Cynthia Johnson, D-Detroit, criticized the lack of Detroit residents and election officials testifying before the committee, and was frequently gaveled down as she tried to comment or ask questions. At one point, she told Hall, “You’re allowing people to come in here and lie, and I know they’re lying.”

Hall said there would be more election-related hearings to come. He said the goal was to give those with concerns about the election a chance to have their say.

“We wanted to provide an opportunity for people to bring forward their stories and be heard, and we tried to do that today,” he said.

Trump’s legal team said lawmakers should not stop at working on ways to fix issues that came up this year for future elections, suggesting they should go further.

“You are the final arbiter of how honest or not your election is in your state, and it’s your responsibility to stand up to them,” Giuliani said.

Electors will convene at the Capitol on Dec. 14 to cast their votes for presidential and vice-presidential candidates who won Michigan’s popular vote. State law requires each elector to cast their vote for candidates of the political party that nominated them.

Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, R-Clarklake, and a spokesperson for House Speaker Lee Chatfield, R-Levering, said legislators in both chambers received calls from the Trump campaign. A Republican state representative also received an email from a Trump campaign official who asked lawmakers to overrule the election result and appoint electors for Trump.

Shirkey, in a statement published on Twitter, said lawmakers will follow the normal process of appointing electors. Republican leaders of the House and Senate have previously said the Legislature will not award Michigan’s 16 electors to Trump.

Related: Trump campaign asks Michigan lawmakers to steal electors from Biden; GOP leaders say it won’t happen

After the results were certified, Trump’s campaign did not exercise the option to request a recount in Michigan before the 48-hour window to do so passed. Rep. Steven Johnson and Rep. David LaGrand, D-Grand Rapids, wondered why the Trump campaign didn’t seek that option.

“What we hear is a lot of talk, a lot of thoughts, a lot of allegations, but we had one opportunity to actually do this,” Steven Johnson said. “The Trump campaign did not make that request.”

Giuliani suggested there was no point in requesting a recount, again asserting allegations the final vote count was fraudulent.

Biden is poised to earn 306 Electoral College votes when electors officially record their vote on Dec. 14, while Trump has 232 secured.

U.S. Attorney General William Barr told the Associated Press this week that Justice Department investigators have not found fraud “on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

Previously, House and Senate oversight committees authorized a subpoena to the Michigan Bureau of Elections for information and communications related to the 2020 primary and general elections. The bureau forked over 1,100 documents related to absentee voting efforts.

Committee members also heard from three Michigan county clerks in a previous hearing, who testified to the security of elections in their county.

Related:

November election was secure, Michigan county clerks tell state lawmakers

Republicans repeat election fraud claims in 7-hour hearing, but ‘we are learning nothing new,’ Dems say

Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani coming to Michigan to give testimony on 2020 election

11th-hour filing saves Trump Michigan voter fraud lawsuit from dismissal

Michigan Republican congressman asks Trump to drop election fraud conspiracy

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